The following set of messages were taken from a special message base on the 
subject of BBS Abuse, on the the PC-HOST BBS operated by The Plain Vanilla 
Computing Company, a Subsidiary of S/D Consultants, Inc.  Data: (301) 986-9408 


Message # 1     on 02-05-85 at 11:42
From   :SYSOP                       
To     :ALL                         
Subj   :NEW CONFERENCE                
Welcome to the new PC-HOST Conference on Bulletin Board Abuse.  The rules
of usage are as follows:
 (1)  All comments or remarks in the Conference are to be designated
          for "ALL".                                     
 (2)  Decorum must be maintained at all times; there will be no 
          profanity, etc. in the Conference (as well as elsewhere on this
          system.
 (3) Subject matter in this Conference is RESTRICTED to BBS Abuse.
 
Those visitors not honoring these requirements will have their access to
this system severely limited.
 Unfortunately, in converting to PC-HOST, we were unable to restore
the previous BBS Abuse Conference, so, again, let's see some participation.
 Thank you,
 The Plain Vanilla Computing Company.

Press Enter,<Q>uit,<S>kip or <N>onstop n
 
Message # 2     on 02-10-85 at 05:47
From   :PHILIP BURNS                
To     :ALL                         
Subj   :Tcimpidis Acquited!           
Tom Tcimpidis has been completely acquited of any wrong-doing.
For those in the know, enough said.  For those unfamiliar with
 
the case, Tom is a California BBS operator whose system
was used to post various phone company credit card numbers.
The phone company had his equipment impounded, Tom was
charged with theft of service (or whatever that's called
in California), etc.  After many months, he has been cleared
of any wrongdoing.  If anyone's interested, I can upload
a more complete report to the files section.
 
Message # 4     on 02-12-85 at 13:36
From   :SYSOP                       
To     :ALL                         
Subj   :Files on BBS Abuse            
 If you are having trouble thinking of contributions for this conference
you might consider downloading files entitled SYSOP.TXT and REQUIEM.TXT
from Download Directory #9.  Though we do not agree entirely with 
the content of those files, most specifically the sections relating
to uploads (we actually prefer not to receive them, except by prior
arrangement or from certain of our visitors), we generally agree with
the thought and philosophy.  They are almost required reading.
 Thank you,
 The Plain Vanilla Computing Company
 
 
Message # 5     on 03-03-85 at 12:59
From   :SYSOP                       
To     :ALL                         
Subj   :Another Sysop Packs It In     
 Abuse and misuse of Bulletin Board Systems has forced Howard Lambert
to close down his 32 Megabyte HOWNAN system in Rockville, MD.  Just
thought I'd give you folks some food for thought -- this is happening
all over the country . . . what are the solutions.
 
Message # 6     on 03-13-85 at 01:22
From   :MARTY MOLESKI               
To     :ALL                         
Subj   :A Sad Story                   
 I don't know whether a story like this is appropriate here.
I hope it doesn't give any sick callers ideas, but it does fit
the topic.
    
 A friend who is SYSOP on an RBBS board was paged one day by a
caller from Florida, who asked for SYSOP privileges in order to
test the "Remote" capacities of the system.  Before my friend could
do anything to stop him, he trashed both disks on the system and
signed off.
    
 I find it hard to believe that there are people like that out
there, but Bill said it really happened.  With inhumanity like that,
it is amazing that there are *any* boards still running!
 
Message # 7     on 03-13-85 at 04:19
From   :PHIL GRIER                  
To     :ALL                         
Subj   :selectivity                   
One major source of bulletin board problem callers is the callers using a
system that is not the same as the hosts.  My RBBS gets its
abusers from users of other manufactures machines.  The files & info
available are directed to PC owners/users, so in an attempt to thwart the
abusing community I "force" graphics displays on my menus & directories.
Most all other machines than the PC will receive garbage characters
instead of the graphics & "flighty" callers or potential abusers are in a
sense shaken-off by having to sit thru this incoming garbage.  Also most
seem to use 300 baud and that makes for longer periods of time that a 
full screen of graphics takes to display.  The PC users have no imposition
put on their machines & also seem to be predominantly 1200 baud users.
    
The graphics has noticably decreased the abusers by an estimated 75% +.
 
Message # 8     on 03-16-85 at 18:41
From   :CLEVE CORLETT               
To     :ALL                         
Subj   :Howard Lambert                
Howard Lambert is back with a new board known as the Phoenix, which is
welcome news for those of us who have valued his contributions. I'm one
of those folks who use boards to exchange ideas and to download new
public domain software. Usually, I find that the boards I most value --
and Howard's board is one of them -- usually have the software I want
before I can upload it. What bothers me as a user is the stupidity of
those who trash boards, which is akin to cutting off your nose to spite
your face. I guess that registration requirements are the only answer, but
it's one that I'll happily pay in order to take advantage of this
incredibly valuable service that a few dedicated folks are willing to
provide.
 
Message # 9     on 03-19-85 at 02:16
From   :ROSEMARIE SIDDIQUI          
To     :ALL                         
Subj   :Same subject                  
Hi.  I thought I had input my thoughts here before but my message is not to
be found anywhere... I agree with the "cutting off the nose to spite the
face" feeling.  I felt bad for Howard K. Lambert and was thrilled to find
him back in the swing.  I recently read of a "trasher" at T-System's board
and captured it to upload here and other boards for the Sysops.  Stuart
Tomares had listed the callers' name and the names of the files -- we can
help Sysops in that small way -- at least.  I really cannot understand how
people can afford to try to damage other people's boards.  They are a real
asset to the PC Community.  (The boards, I mean.)  I have learned so much
about my PC from the boards alone.
I think another good idea is if the Sysops will indeed prosecute a few of
the abusers to set an example and put the "would-be" abusers on notice. 
Thank you for your time.
RoseMarie
 
Message#  10     is a private message.
Message # 11    on 03-26-85 at 08:50
From   :JOHN BECKMAN                
To     :ALL                         
Subj   :RBBS ABUSE                    
I READ THE FOLLOWING MESSAGE FROM ANOTHER RBBS AND PASS IT ON FOR YOUR
INFORMATION.  APPARENTLY SOMEONE IS ABUSING RBBS BOARDS BY UPLOADING A
PROGRAM NAMED "ADD-DOS.EXE" THANT WILL DESTROY YOUR DISKETTE(S).  THE 
DESCRIPTION OF THE PROGRAM WAS "ADD DOS 2.1 TO ANY DISK WITHOUT MODIFYING
BIOS".  THE ORIGIONAL WARNING MESSAGE WAS TAKEN FROM THE BOLINGBROOK IL RBBS
RUN BY DICK LAIN AND I GOT IT FROM GEORGE WARREN'S RBBS IN IL.  I THINK THE
PERSON RESPONSIBLE FOR THIS KIND OF ACTION IS BENEATH CONTEMPT AND REALLY
CANNOT UNDERSTAND WHAT MOTIVATES SUCH A PERSON.  I AGREE WITH OTHER COMMENTS
ON THIS CONFERENCE THAT PROSECUTION SHOULD BE ATTEMPTED IF THE PERSON(S)
RESPONSIBLE CAN BE IDENTIFIED, HOWEVER, I DONT THINK THE SYSOP(S) CAN BE
EXPECTED TO PAY FOR ALL THE POSSIBLE LEGAL COSTS WITHOUT THE SUPPORT OF THEI
USERS.  I DONT KNOW HOW WE USERS COULD BE ORGAINIZED TO SUPPORT A PROSECUTIN
SYOP BUT THERE SHOULD BE SOME METHOD/ORGANIZATION THAT WOULD SOLICIT USER
SUPPORT AND COORDINATE SUCH ACTION.  
I AM NEW TO COMPUTERS AND RBBS BOARDS IN GENERAL, BUT I CAN CERTAINLY VALUE
THEIR CONTRABUTION TO PEOPLE LIKE MYSELF AND MARVEL AT THE GENEROSITY OF
INDIVIDUALS WHO CONTRIBUTE THEIR TIME AND MONEY TO HELP OTHERS.  TO ALL SYSO
I EXPRESS MY THANKS AND HOPE SOMETHING CAN BE DONE TO ELIMINATE ABUSE!!
 
Message # 12    on 03-26-85 at 22:07
From   :PAUL CILWA                  
To     :ALL                         
Subj   :Stopping Abuse                
I hope this doesn't seem frivolous but it just occurred to me that one
way to cut down on BBS abuse is to have such a GREAT system that legitimate
users have it tied up most of the time. I assume that most abusers are
kids or in other ways immature and therefore lack the staying power to
keep up the attempts at getting into the boards.
    Looking back at what I just said, I guess it is frivolous. But, for
the record, I certainly don't mind registering to get into a board. In
fact, I like it; it seems like I'm introducing myself and makes me feel
like I and the other registered guests of the board in some way form
a community. I sign onto a few boards regularly and (once I got over
"download fever" long enough to look at the messages) have gotten to
recognize a few of the names.
    I haven't encountered this PC-HOST system elsewhere, but RBBS-PC
has the facilty of keeping a list of unlikely names to check against
users trying to log on. Suggested enters might include "Doctor", "death"
and so on -- the kinds of names that might be used as aliases. This
apparently stops some of them. For those that log on with believable
names, required registration before access seems reasonable to me. And,
although it's unreasonable to expect a SYSOP to get to a registration
in less than a week, I've never known it to take more than 2 days -- 
usually 24 hours.
    Like the rest of you in this conference, I would like to thank
the SYSOPs of the country for the service they provide. My psychology
studies tell me that no one does what he or she does without getting
something out of it; but whether a SYSOP has a board for the warm
feeling he or she gets from assiting fellow hackers, or whether it's
for the sense of power gained from having constant callers is
irrelevant. What's important is that SYSOPS provide a service -- one
that, I think, will turn out to be immensely important from a future
standpoint -- and if there is anything I can do to help, just ask.
 
Message # 13    on 04-03-85 at 15:40
From   :HOWARD LAMBERT              
To     :ALL                         
Subj   :CUTTING DOWN ABUSES           
 I appreciate the kind words found here for the defunct HOWNAN RBBS
BOARD.  There was such an outpouring of support from all the good guys
and gals out there that I just had to bring it back... as The Phoenix.
 I agree with several of the comments above... most of the problems
hat this board has had were caused by adolescent pinheads, many, of course,
using C-64's, Atari's and the like.  There were only about three adults that
I could determine in the small group that created most of the problems.
 In setting up the new board, I have implemented the TRASHCAN file of
RBBS-PC, and this works very well, especially with the comment that the 
call has been traced and recorded!!  That one generally keeps the kids from
coming back.  Of course there are others who are simply locked out, too.
I, too have forced graphics on my Board, and primarily to tear up those
small machines.  This has also helped a great deal, and while it may
aggravate a lot of the callers who are running at 300 Baud, the vast
majority of my callers (about 85%) are now running at 1200 Baud.  As the
price of modems keeps dropping, this will cause an increase in 1200 Baud
activity with a substantial drop in 300 Baud except for the smaller
"kiddie" machines (sorry about that, you PCJR users, but you'll just have
to get with it and go a little faster).
 An exchange of ID'd miscreants would not be a bad idea at all, and I
would certainly like to contribute to that environment.  It could help to
cut other problems.
 Oh, I almost forgot.  I finally decided to limit all new callers to
leaving Comments only... they cannot leave a Message at the new caller
level.  That way, there are no abusive or foul-mouthed messages posted
on the boards to plague your callers.  Quite important in my case, since I
travel a lot in my work.  Every little bit helps.
 Keep the faith.
  Howard K. Lambert, SYSOP
  THE PHOENIX
 
Message # 14    on 04-04-85 at 13:37
From   :KEN SMITH                   
To     :ALL                         
Subj   :Abuse                         
I too wish to express my thanks to all other SYSOPS and valid users of BBS
systems.  I have learned 80% of what I understand about telecommunications
from users and SYSOPS who take the time to help novice's up to speed.
   
Regarding the sharing of names and passwords of individuals that have
abused boards...  I do not like the idea in principle.  My concern is that
we not get caught up in "SYSOP abuse."  Can we not hope that malicious
abusers can be won by being convinced that they are cutting off their own
noses?  
   
I am a SYSOP for a limited access RBBS, used by my office to share infor-
mation between employees and associates.  New callers can read the bulle-
tins, and leave a comment, but no more until checked out and approved for
additional access.  We have found this system to work very well.  
   
Back to sharing information about abusers... what I am saying is this: it
might be a good idea to share the information, but what will we do with
it?  What if a malicious abuser decided to get the names of some valid
users from your user log, then called your board under an alias, told you
he was the sysop of the Vigilante RBBS in Tuscon, and that the following
users had been identified as malicious "hackers?"  See the danger?  I
don't want to be the victim of the very people we are trying to avoid by
ending up locking out innocent users.  That won't give us SYSOPs a very
good name.
   
I am all for the protection of our systems.  I like the graphics idea,
and would implement it except for the fact that some of our associates
do not have PCs or compatibles.  Here's another suggestion: when you
are victimized by an abuser, put a message on your board to the effect
that SO-AND-SO attempted to crash the system by doing thus-and-thus,
and that their security has been reduced to minimum for the immediate
future.  As the abuser and other users see the message, they will get
the picture; they will also know that other SYSOPS know, and may be
they will straighten out.  
   
Thanks, Steve & Co., for the forum.
 
Message # 15    on 04-11-85 at 18:29
From   :PHIL NOGUCHI                
To     :ALL                         
Subj   :New user                      
As one who logs on to several boards with an Osborne at home and a PC at
work, I too join in the praise for the SYSOPS of this country that are such
a major resource and inspiration. In terms of graphics, as far as I can tell
responsible CPM machines have no problem...my Osborne certainly doesn't, but
it surely must mess up COMMODORES! I am appalled that trashing of boards has
taken place...Unfortunately, I have no easy or ready thoughts to help with
this problem. I agree that registration is useful and is certainly no proble
with me. On several occasions, actually the sysops have called me at my home
number to chat abbout several things.  Subscriptions certainly must also hav
a deterrant effect.  Many thanks again to all those who have provided useful
and productive software that easily beats the commercial stuff in terms of
cost-benefit ratio.....Phil Noguchi
 
Message # 16    on 04-19-85 at 19:19
From   :BARRY FOX                   
To     :ALL                         
Subj   :Stopping Abuse                
I am the SYSOP of a BBS running on an Apple //e. I too have taken great pain
to stop abusers.  On my BBS, The Crystal City Connection, new users can only
read messages, request passwords and leave me a comment or fill out a user
survey.  This stops most abusers, who as we all know are predominantly young
and unfortunately for me run mostly Apple's.  I agree that a BUSY BBS helps
keep them off your system, and al  proper policing of your message bases.
---------Barry Fox, Sysop, Crystal City Connection, 703-553-0821
 
Message # 17    on 05-05-85 at 20:28
From   :RICH HOUGHTON               
To     :ALL                         
Subj   :Safeguards                    
     As a converted hacker (as you get older, you get wiser), I thought that
I would pass on this little bit of advice.  When you upload a file, make sur
that before you run it for the first time you remove all other disks from 
your drives and have a backup of your hard drive (if any).  I've known quite
a few kids who will upload a legitimate program with a disk-destroying seed
program buried inside it.  The seed program is usually broken up with severa
GOTO and GOSUB statements so as not to be obvious, and can't be picked out b
casual observation.  If the Sysop hasn't examined the program before putting
it on his board, it can really screw up the disk its on and any other disks
you have inserted in the system.  Always save new programs to a scratch disk
look over anything with a .com or .exe (or even a long .bas file!) for what
seem to be frivolous lin, and when running for the first time clear out all
your other drives.            
     I haven't seen alot of this activity on this coast; it seems more p    
prevelent out west where every twerp under 15 has got an Atari and loves to
go around causing problems.  Having been there myself (never trashed a board
but I used to LOVE breaking into systems for the hell of it), the best      
deterents are forced graphics as early on the board as you can get them, a 
file which screens out typical alias names (Atilla, Dr., any name from Star
Trek, D&D, or Star Wars, etc.), or verification of phone numbers.
     Just remember to stay alert.  A friend of mine in LA is attemping to
write a program that will watchdog his board.  I have also heard of an ex-
hacker out west trying to write a program that will detect incoming destruct
ive programs, hanging up or disabling the sending system. I'll keep ya poste
                                           Rich Houghton
 
Message # 18    on 05-22-85 at 22:39
From   :MARTY MOLESKI               
To     :ALL                         
Subj   :Have things improved recently?
    I haven't seen any new messages on this area for at least a month.
Does this mean that going to 1200 baud and having a stiff "entrance
policy" has solved the basic problems?
   
    I enjoyed reading the answers from Plain Vanilla to some folks who
didn't want to abide by the house rules.  Thanks for sharing them, SYSOP!
 
Message#  19     has been Killed.
Message # 20    on 05-30-85 at 12:25
From   :DAVID THOMPSON              
To     :HOWARD LAMBERT AND ALL      
Subj   :PCjr's                        
Howard,
 
   I highly resent your comment about the PCjr being a "kiddie" machine. I
run the Software Exchange, a 2400 baud board in Omaha,Ne. Most of my users
are PCjr and PC users, and I have found that the PCjr users are genreally 
the best people to deal with.
 
                                    Dave Thompson
                               Sysop: The Software Exchange
                                      1-402-391-5419
 
Message # 21    on 06-02-85 at 23:24
From   :CHRIS ROWLEY                
To     :ALL                         
Subj   :A little lax                  
While I am all for the prevention of so-called Trojan Horse programs 
and the prevention of meddlers who attempt to crash belletin boards 
that are there for their use, there is a line to draw about scum/non-scum. 
 
Some sysops out there see their bbs as a place for serious adult 
conversation and the transfer of public files.  But when this happens, 
the younger users see it as an offense, not realizing that it is 
not their right to have your system at their beg and call.
 
I have and always will have a different view of the bbs world.  My 
board has no validation (which I see as a hassle to keep up with, 
especially since I operate two boards, one at work and a more liberal 
one at home), and no baud-restrictions/funny characters.  My board 
is for communications--it is a bulletin board, those first two letters 
of the abbreviation bbs if you didn't know.  And while some C-64 
and Atari and Apple users may be out there to fill your message base 
with 4-letter words, there is an equal number interested in public-forums 
and discussions.  They don't bother with files, they realize its 
an IBM board.
 
Age always makes a difference, but I like a variety of opinions, 
and since I am not a "file board" at home, and only files at work 
because that's one of our promised services, I don't worry about 
it.  -- Chris Rowley, Sysop LINDA, Fido #359, and WITHK Systems
 
Message # 22    on 06-07-85 at 13:05
From   :JIM TYSON                   
To     :CHRIS ROWLEY & ALL          
Subj   :BBS (AB)USE                   
It seems some sysops see their boards in the same light as a suicide 
hot-line or rape crisis counseling line - that is, a number to be 
used only by those with a serious need, and the response of these 
same sysops to (young) non-serious non-business callers is about 
the same as you would expect a suicide hot-line counselor to respond 
to a prank call.
 
I agree absolutely with Chris Rowley (who maintains two of the most 
truly rewarding boards in the area).  A bbs system is a Bulletin 
Board system, should be free for public access without exceptions. 
 Boards like this one or Howard Lambert's Phoenix (nee Hownan's) 
should perhaps be called (no offence) fts's for File Transfer Systems, 
as there are never any messages of consequence for sharing.
 
Besides, well written BBS software should be immune from 'board crashers' 
anyway.  I wonder how many sysops have restricted access to their
boards only because they care not to take the time to correct weaknesses 
in the software that allow them to be crashed.
 
I am in the process of setting up a public access bulletin board 
system for which there will never be access restrictions on anyone. 
The Tom Tcimpidis case set a precedent, so I need not worry if someone 
uploads a credit-card number or copy of Lotus 123 - I will simply 
delete them if I find them.
 
Message # 23    on 06-07-85 at 13:50
From   :SYSOP                       
To     :ALL                         
Subj   :RESPONSE                      
	I think it's time for the old Sysop to jump in here, following Mr. 
Tyson's message.  "A bbs system is a Bulletin Board system, should 
be free for public access without exceptions," according to Mr. Tyson. 
The question here is "Why?".  This company leaves equipment with 
a retail value of over $7,000 online 24 hours a day, seven days a 
week, experiences roughly 90 minutes of maintenance on the system 
daily and expends approximately $100.00 weekly to provide serious 
software for serious users.  Because we are among the most restrictive 
systems in the country, our visitors rarely experience access problems. 
Notwithstanding that restrictiveness, we have over 500 registered 
visitors and have had more than 9,000 logons since last October. 
Obviously, we are doing something correctly.
	The notion that "BBS" systems are a "free-for-all" we find rather 
distasteful.  Of all the industries and people I covered during my 
newspaper days with the Wall Street Journal, I never encountered 
a group such as PC-Users.  They seem bent on "getting something for 
nothing" and rarely offer anything quid pro quo.  Our system would 
not exist if it did not pay its own way . . . and if it ever stops 
paying its own way, we will simply put it to another use.
	We take humbrage at the statement that this system never has "any 
messages of consequence for sharing."  There are forums here on Turbo 
Pascal, Technical Issues, Copy Protection and, of course BBS Abuse. 
Some are, in fact, quite lively.  If Mr. Tyson believes the messages 
are of no great moment, he may place the blame squarely on our visitors 
who logon, race immediately to the file transfer section and download 
for 43 minutes or so.  
	As President of S/D Consultants, I can say without qualification 
this will never be a public message base, nor will it ever drop its 
restrictions.  This, for many reasons, not the least of which are 
legal.  If Mr. Tyson truly believes he can operate a totally open 
system, based on the Tcimpidis "precedent," he is both naive and 
sorely mistaken.  As that case was lost by the prosecution more on 
technicalities than case law . . . one upload to one's system can 
do it all:  Registration is necessary.
	Operating a host communications system is, in many ways, in the 
public interest and certainly can be profitably, interesting and 
rewarding.  However, I firmly believe that the utilization of a host 
system by a remote user is a privilege, not a right.  Visitors are 
just that: "Visitors" and required to maintain the same decorum on 
a host system that they would maintain when walking into one's office 
or home.
 
Message # 24    on 06-07-85 at 16:38
From   :DAN PLUNKETT                
To     :ALL                         
Subj   :Scott Keating                 
Today, someone claiming to be "Scott Keating" from CentreVille, VA 
got access to my users log and subquentially got passwords (including 
mine).  He called me back (BBS line) and proceeded to type in my 
name and my password.  Of course, he got on without a hitch.  I believe 
the others passwords too.  PEOPLE CHANGE YOUR PASSWORDS!  
 
To all BBS operators:
  If someone calls your system and claims to be me and leaves nasty 
messages, please, erase them.  I DID NOT LEAVE THEM!  I will try 
to get around a soon as possible to change my password.  I will leave 
a comment saying so.
 
Dan P. Plunkett
Sysop of Fido #450
 
Message # 25    on 06-10-85 at 14:04
From   :CHRIS ROWLEY                
To     :ALL                         
Subj   :Difference of opinion         
Well, Steve and others have their right to their own opinion as to the 
use and freedom of their system.  They just appear on the opposite end 
of the spectrum--the spectrum in this area is of course, Capitalistic 
Personal Computer User's Group, or CPCUG.  These people provide a great 
service to the community and quite a number of boards.
I personally do not like this group because of censorship, lack of access 
and "snootiness".  I used to hold this opinion of "snootiness" to almost 
all IBM PC sysops, but from calling across the country I have seen this 
not the case.  They have their share of restricted system, but not on 
the scale CPCUG brings to this area.  Washington, D.C. has probabaly 
the largest number of bulletin boards in this country, yet the novice 
is bound to come across CPCUG either as a tip from the dealer or a friend.
"Yeah, they got lots of files," is an apt description.  But this is 
a bad precedant for the bulletin board society.  Users need a share 
of both public and restricted access, file and discussion boards.  I 
only wish the CPCUG could reevaluate their policies.
I've run 4 boards over a year and a half, with no access restrictions 
(as I left one board, CPCUG member Rich Schinnell brought security to 
the board after complaining to teh ComputerLand management, but on later 
evaluation and dedicated users voicing objections the management realized 
that a foolish act to have taken) and have had no problems.  Maybe I'm 
just immoral in your eyes, but I for one cherish freedom in this country 
and will do my best to allow others to enjoy it as well.  I make no 
money dedicating my $8000 machine to public use.  It's just fun.
Chris
 
Message # 26    on 06-10-85 at 16:30
From   :SYSOP                       
To     :ALL                         
Subj   :Response                      
My, my Mr. Rowley, that is quite a response.  In one breath you use 
the word "Capitalistic" in the perjorative and the next breath speak 
about cherishing freedom.  I have no idea what your references to the 
CPUG mean.  As a non-profit organization, the group certainly cannot 
be "capitalistic."  The argument of "snootiness" is quite simply rebutted 
by the hundreds, perhaps even thousands of computer neophytes the group 
has assisted.  With regard to "lack of access," I find that difficult 
to believe, as the primary CPUG host systems are those operated by Rich 
Schinnell and Wes Merchant.  The former requires password and telephone 
number at logon, the latter has no requirement and both are open systems. 
Censorship on both of those systems, as well as this one certainly is 
nothing but a base canard issued by you, as the only editorial restrictions
relate to the normal bounds of decorum and propriety.  Considering those 
two parameters, one might well remember the old Computerland RBBS, which 
was filled with more foul language than I care to remember.  In fact, 
the system was quite worthless as even a marketing tool and certainly 
reflected poorly on Computerland.  In fact, I am not sure what purpose 
the system now service Computerland, as it represents only a message 
base and file transfer system utilized primarily by children.  As to 
Computerland management recognizing, according to your missive, that 
they had embarked on a "foolish act," perhaps that is reflective of 
Computerland's thinking in general . . . one need only to look as the 
softening in business from Corporate to determine the wisdom of their 
business decisions.
With regard to computer retailers operating host systems, we have had 
a number acquire PC-HOST and establish the system for two purposes: 
(1) the marketing of products; and (2) customer support.  They have 
found that both sales and good will have increased significantly.
With regard to the operation of an $8,000.00 system dedicated to fun
and games, well, Chris, you are fortunate that it is so affordable . 
. . or, are you using it as a tax deduction.
 
Message # 27    on 06-11-85 at 00:35
From   :JOHN MCMAHON                
To     :ALL                         
Subj   :CBM Machines and BBS Abuse    
I was Assistant Sysop for several months at the Computer Emporium BBS 
in Southern New York State. (914) 343-1031 N/8/1 300/1200 if you are 
interested.  When I was there I had to deal with many of the problems 
you folks have described, mostly foul language and lewd comments.  As 
for board crashers and people who upload 'bombs' we were luck enough 
to be spared this.  Most of this occured because we were an open system, 
and although I hate to see more and more boards go private, I feel it's 
nessesary to protect the Sysop and also to protect the user.  Since 
the CEBBS went private, many of those problems have disappeared, and 
CEBBS has flourished even with the entry restriction.  I have 1 suggestion 
to add to improving a BBS, and a few comments on what people have said 
before me.
1. Uploads- Many boards have an 'Uploads Directory', this is a file 
of recent uploads that haven't been catagorized or tested by the Sysop. 
This ought to be removed so that users can't get their hands on 'untested' 
material.  A Sysop, in most cases, will be able to safely test for bombs 
as opposed to the general user who may not know what to look for.  So 
to prevent the user from getting their hands on a potential disaster 
program, remove the UPLOADS directory from users access.
2. 300 Baud- Why get rid of it ??  Many people cannot afford a Hayes 
1200B (or eqivalent) I certainly can't! (Before you ask, I am not calling 
from my own computer) Good Policeing of a system will prevent abuse, 
not closing out users who can't afford better equipment.  Also not all 
hackers and kids have 300 Baud machines.
continued...
 
Message # 28    on 06-11-85 at 00:51
From   :JOHN MCMAHON                
To     :ALL                         
Subj   :Last Message continued...     
My apologies for making this 2 Messages, but I get a little long winded.
3- Commodore, Atari and other game machines - This stereotype makes 
my blood boil, and this is the first time I have seen it.  Just because 
users are using 'foreign' machines (i.e. using a Vic-20 to call a PC 
Board) and just accessing your message base doesn't mean that the are 
better or worse, just different.  I resent the implication that owners 
of these socalled 'game' machines have nothing better to do than bother 
the Sysops and IBM-PC BBS systems.  Why shut these people out ??  They 
just want to communicate with other people, just like you with your 
IBM-PC equipment.  Also my comment about expense comes under this point 
also, many people cannot afford a IBM-PC! Let alone a PC with a modem.
For what you would pay for an IBM-PC, you could get a decent Commodore-64 
system and still have money left over!  To go back to my board CEBBS, 
most of our users own Commodore 64's, in fact our up/down load section 
for C-64's is (at last count) 12 or 13 times larger than the IBM-PC 
directory. Why? Cause most of the people in our area own C-64's.  How 
would you feel if you called the all the local BBS systems in your are 
a and discovered that you couldn't do anything because they were restricted
to C-64 users ??  My message here is don't discriminate because of equipmen
security is required obviously, but don't prevent a new user from entering 
the BBS world just because he has an Atari!  By the way, I am quite 
happy with the communications abilities of my non-IBMPC... a 300-baud 
Commodore Vic-20.  Thank you for allowing me to express my views (sorry 
about the spelling errors) Regards, John J. McMahon
 
Message # 29    on 06-11-85 at 07:58
From   :SYSOP                       
To     :ALL                         
Subj   :Response                      
Jim, first, I believe you have misunderstood the parameters of this 
system:  it exists and operates ONLY for IBM PCs and clones, not for 
other systems.  This for any number of reasons, the primary of which 
include the fact that we are commercial and business oriented.  With 
that in mind, the IBM and compatibles are the preeminent systems extant. 
As to other computers and host systems for them, well, there are many 
existing for Commodores, Ataris, Apple.  About a year ago we opened 
the system up, to other systems, primarily Apples, with associated products
for sale and file transfer.  We had that system up for several months 
and it was pure horror . . . just filled with abuse.  We had a number 
of responsible Apple users and a number of Apple customers, however, 
the headaches far outweighed the profits, so we removed all access for 
non-IBM users.                                                      
With regard to the exclusion of 300 baud users, again this is a business  
oriented system and we believe that most business users are operating 
at 1200 baud.  In fact, prior to excluding 300 bauders, our statistics 
showed that more than 95 percent of our visitors were at 1200.  Moreover, 
your cost factor comes into play, along with efficiency:  if one is 
utilizing an IBM PC and communications, then one should certainly be 
at least somewhat current with communications equipment: using 1200 
baud.  Finally, most of our problems on this system were related to 
visitors using 300 baud.
All uploads on this system, by the way, ARE placed on a private directory 
for prior review.   
 
Message#  30     has been Killed.
Message # 31    on 06-16-85 at 23:47
From   :CHRIS ROWLEY                
To     :ALL                         
Subj   :Response                      
Since it appears my response was lost due to my work, I'll rekey it.
The reference to the illustrious group as "Capitalistic" is merely a 
monicker I use in my manual NRBBS-PC, the first public-domain parody 
documentation to be available soon.  Just came out as habit I guess. 
I know of your groups successes and contributions but would never be 
a member because of the CPCUG double-standard.  I quote from the RBBS-PC 
documentation which is pubically acknowledged as part of the CPCUG (it 
is version CPC12.2A etc.): "to be a catalyst for the free exchange of 
information."  Yet most if not all CPCUG boards require real names and 
a curb on language, subject matter (Tom Mack is the prime example: his 
board is for free exchange but he places the bounds of religion, literature
and NRBBS, not quite a free turf to me).
My "toy" was a graduation/birthday present.  A tax write-off would be 
foolish since I haul the thing off to college each school year.  It 
is used for programming, communications, study and writing.  When not 
being used (during sleep and while at work) I run a truly free bbs, 
with no restrictions on monickers (bulletin board users did not invent 
the pseudonym--what about the many fine authors who used it to their 
advantage?) or subject matter.  I feel obscene replies with no warrant 
should be purged, but on the sex story board, a very funny and well 
written area, the language is needed, but it is used in a very non-offensiv
matter, as least as far as I'm concerned.
Chris
 
Message # 32    on 06-17-85 at 08:33
From   :SYSOP                       
To     :ALL                         
Subj   :Response                      
Ah, the anarchy of youth . . . what degree of freedom is required before 
freedom is no longer . . . these are issues and philosophies I've not 
the time to address.  However, Chris, the analogy of pseudonyms and 
authors is thoroughly spurious and was well-addressed here about a year 
ago in a colloquy with Tom Hamlin.  Again, I've not the inclination 
to debate the use of fraudulent names again, save to say that there 
is no reason to utilize them on this, or any other responsible system 
unless one is here to violate the regulations of this system or effect 
damage upon it.

or any other responsible system 
unless one is